Hi Everyone, prepare yourselves for a long-ass post!
Recently we watched The Killing Joke Bluray. We'd been looking forward to this ever since I (Jamie) squealed when they announced it in Ballroom 20 of SDCC last year.
We've got a fair bit to say about this so let's get down to business.
The DC fan base is so dedicated that no movie, live action or otherwise, will ever live up to expectations. DC is doomed to never please everyone, despite how they try to cater to all markets.
That is clearly the case with The Killing Joke.
MAT here I stole the post while she's feeding bub, firstly, we really enjoyed the movie, we wouldn't rate it as the best DC animated movie but it was still a good ride. Since seeing it we've seen a lot of reviews which have had a whole lot of hate for this movie, especially the first section (an add on story about batgirl) some hate it for not being part of the original comic, others for the relationship between Batgirl and Batman, some just feel it isn't the same tone of the rest of the movie.
Personally I'm pretty sure I know what they were going for, DC animated have been creating a universe for years, it roughly follows the current comic continuity but never exactly to the comics themselves, for example Flashpoint Paradox, Justice league War and Throne of Atlantis all directly follow stories leading up to and continuing into the new 52 run of comics but change small things about them to make the movies more accessible to the average viewer (no pre reading homework needed).
This story was written well before the New 52 so it would be out of the order, but due to fan requests and the fact that Mark Hamill stated he'd never play joker again unless it was this story, the decision was made to make it. and I think they did a good job of fitting it in their animated universe.
Jamie's back! Hi guys.
Ok. Time to get into spoiler territory so I can say what we liked/didn't like. So this is your official spoiler warning!
- After Act 1 (the Barbara backstory), this movie is pretty much an exact, word for word of the comic. It's fantastic that so much effort was made to stay true to the original script. With a story this good, you don't need to modify it.
- The voice actors. Kevin Conroy as Batman (let's face it. He IS Batman), Mark Hamill as Joker (he is truly the Joker), Tara Strong as Batgirl, pretty sure we heard some sneaky John DiMaggio in there too. I'm sure most of you know Conroy and Hamill voiced these characters in Batman: The Animated Series. It is such a treat to have them back, even though this version of Batman and Joker are very different to the characters they played in BTAS.
- Pacing: Some people will say "but the first act makes it drag out in runtime", yeah, true, but once the action starts, you're off to the races and we really didn't notice the runtime.
- This one is a bit of a love/hate. Animation. When we saw the trailer for this and saw the animation wasn't the same style as previous films (see my personal fave Flashpoint Paradox), we were a little worried that it would take us out of the story. It didn't really. I understand the animators were attempting to emulate the art style of the comic artists and they came pretty close. When Joker has his flashback of his origin story, the scene where he has just been affected by the chemicals and starts laughing at the end of his "one bad day" is pretty close to the original (and so SO classic) Brian Bolland art. I love this art so much I have a jacket with it on the back. It's seriously fantastic.
What was bad?
- Yeah, sometimes the animation didn't seem as polished as it could be, but adapting such a unique style to animation must be incredibly difficult.
- We honestly don't think Act 1 was bad. Was the sex scene necessary? well, that can be argued, but I think it was put in there so people new to the Batman universe could see that there was something at stake for Batman as well, not just "helping the Commissioner and his daughter" as it COULD have come across without the prologue. Think about it. If you had no idea about Batman, and you just started watching from the Killing Joke section of the film, would the stakes be high enough for Batman to kill the Joker? A man who he wouldn't even kill when Jason Todd was killed? (if you don't know what I'm talking about, watch Under The Red Hood, you won't be disappointed). And yes, I know the "killing" of the Joker is left as a bit of a "did he or didn't he" Schrodinger-type thing, but I like to think Batman finally killed that piece of garbage. So dark.
- Maybe not the best story to adapt to film. We love the story, but as a film, we enjoy previous DC animations so much more. We don't think it's the fault of the animation team or that there's something wrong with the story itself, just that this isn't the best medium to convey this tale.
A lot of the reviews complain about the art style, I do realize Jamie just mentioned it but they were trying to combine 2 art styles into one movie, the DC animated style and the original comic style, instead of pissing off one group completely they tried to meet everyone half way but that seems to have just angered the masses.
OK now I need to mention the sex scene, personally it's not my favorite version of the Batman/Batgirl relationship (I've seen a lot of the later cartoons where he's more of a mentor /father figure than a partner) but that's my preference I honestly cannot deny that they ever had that kind of relationship, I've been told it was in the early comics and the Batman beyond cartoon cemented it as canon.
I know it's getting a bit long winded at this point, but the other night we were watching reviews to see if anyone liked the movie the same way as we did or to see how other people interpreted the same movie. I think Variant comics were closest in opinion to us overall.
There was one review which actually almost angered me personally I think she missed the point, normally I love Steph Cozza at Aggressive Comics but her review of this movie seemed to turn into a bit of contradictory ramblings which I think most of her thoughts may need rebuttal.
So rebuttal -
Well ....
I've became distracted I started watching her review again so I could list things she said and then put down my comments / thoughts (she does contradict herself a bit) but she's just taken the fun out of everything.
She made a statement that she loves Alan Moore's work, but her evangelical devotion to The Killing Joke Graphic novel is at odds with his own views on it, I'd read interviews previously where he hates what that book has done to Batman, this was meant to be his darkest moment, not an average day at the office like later writers have continued, I tried to find the original article I read (so I could quote)
one such interview -
https://www.inverse.com/article/14967-alan-moore-now-believes-the-killing-joke-was-melodramatic-not-interesting
I could go on but it would sound like a hate rant on Steph and normally I really enjoy her reviews, I do recommend reading the article from inverse.com.
Loving Alan Moore's work but not acknowledging his feelings about it is equivalent to those people a few years ago wearing all the Von Dutch merchandise. Von Dutch was the least commercial man on earth and his heirs selling his name as a brand was despicable.
But I've gotten off topic. It's a good movie, not great but not deserving of the hate, I suggest you go watch it, make up your own mind. The more support the DC animated movies get, the more they'll make, and the animated movies are the ones DC and Warner Bros have been getting right.
MAT
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